Canadian-Team.com

[Starks333]

positives are compliments...if you compliment someone wrongly(as in saying something is good when it really isnt that good) you are misleading them, which does not help them no matter what

you can make statements saying "negative" things while staying neutral

feelings are what prevent people from learning, but its much easier to learn to take in negative and see the positive, than it is to take in a compliment and see anything but positive

comparison is how people learn...like i said earlier(i think) you arent responsible for peoples reactions, all you can do is say what you see and try and give suggestions on how to work around it

the fact you are giving time to lend a suggestion and critique should be enough for a person to see the comment is there to assist

a comment without any suggestion(unless the peson already knows and the comment is a reminder) is pointless, especially when positive

its like handing out too many awards...the reaosning is "they'll be back next yr!" but the drawback: "they wont have improved much because they think they are already good!"
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sαм мα�chαиd says:
my oldest brother would never let me play cars with him
sαм мα�chαиd says:
cuz I would always drive on the wrong side of the street on the mat
sαм мα�chαиd says:
and I wouldnt respect speed limits

[Legacy40k]

There is always something positive about something, even if it's small/minor/insignificant. There is always something.

Nobody is saying you can't have negative reviews of something... they are just saying you don't have to be so one sided with reviews.

We are humans... we have feelings... if you don't like that and don't want to consider that, then there are several miniature lines painted by machines. Some would say emotion is the most important thing in art.
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My Cool Mini or Not Album

[Starks333]

im not disputing the fact people have feelings, what im saying is that in order to really learn you need to disregard your personal opinions and feelings to be able to take in proper information

if you bias the information because of the mood you were in one day, then you will miss out...if you ignore info because someone said it in a mean way, you miss out...if you dont look further into things because someone said you did a good job, then you miss out

what is required in order to learn is to be able to separate fact from opinion...and once you can read someones post and pick apart the facts without biasing everything you say back you will be able to learn....this is proven by debates...the people who stay the most calm and aware are the strongest debaters, because they do not have opinions jumping into the debate, they stay factual and respond factual....it is what is called reasoning....reasoning allows you to take facts and create the most realistic or practical outcome...opinions have no reasoning, because they have no facts or realistic/practical background...they are strictly for you and about you, and affect only you and your world

that being said you also cant trust every part of a critique...the point of critique is to make aware

you cannot be taught anything, you have to learn it, otherwise you will never truly understand it...and so teaching is and only ever will be guidance, and allowing you to be informed and made aware

otherwise, it becomes a tutorial, or a step by step, in which you copy and learn nothing, because you dont see more than what it is, or investigate more than what they tell you to do
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sαм мα�chαиd says:
my oldest brother would never let me play cars with him
sαм мα�chαиd says:
cuz I would always drive on the wrong side of the street on the mat
sαм мα�chαиd says:
and I wouldnt respect speed limits

[Cherub]

I dont think anyone would disagree with you about emotion playing a huge part in art in general. The question is when painting a model that is supose to be relaistic how much is emotion and how much needs to be science?

Take me for example though I would be one extreme end of the spectrum. I dont have a background in art, I never drew as a kid, didnt paint, scuplt, art class was to me was something I had to do like math or science. To be fair the only reason I passed art was nobody failed art and I sucked up to the teacher....alot. As soon as I could I dropped art and picked up comp animation cause it gave me the art credit and was something I could do without stabbing myself in the leg all the time in frustration.
I cant speak art, have a hard time seeing art (if you show me a paining by Salavdor Dali and some high school kid I cant see the difference and when you guys talk art you might as well be speaking greek to me I understand that much of it.) and yet have this crazy dessire to understand and produce something great. its wierd I know.
I'm one person that is willing to do almost anything to learn to be better to withstand any critque cause I truly want to be better. Ask Starks I drive him nuts on msn lol. I'm one end, people that dont post are on the other and people that do are somewhere in the middle.
When you review someone work you need to take where they are into consideration, are they an annoying pain in the ass like me? or they a hardcore I have no life all I do is paint person like Starks or are they a I would like to improve my painting but I need warm fuzzy rainbows or are they somewhere in between?
Most people are somewhere inbetween I think.
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This is my brush, there are many like it but this one is mine.

[Starks333]

thats actually kinda what hes saying...where as im saying it doesnt matter what they are after, theres things that are required in order to truly learn

some teachers like to teach everyone
some like to teach only people who are truly interested
some just teach
and some dont know what the hell they are doing

critiquing is different from teaching if you choose to only make comments now and then...if however you constantly work with those people, you are now teaching...and teaching is what allows you to be harsher and truer

teaching is basically prolonged critique

and since i believe this started in response to how i speak ...my explanation is that i do not look to just teach everyone...i look for specific talents and people who have what it takes, because i myself am intense, in anything i do, and if i am to help anyone, they need to have the dedication required

being upfront will allow you to find out immediately whos here to elarn and whos here for other reasons...the ones here to learn get further comments...the ones not, dont get much more from me, because it benefits neither of us to receive the comments

now and then i will pop in to re-test a person, in order to attempt to push them out of their position and into a more productive one(in terms of learning)
_________________
sαм мα�chαиd says:
my oldest brother would never let me play cars with him
sαм мα�chαиd says:
cuz I would always drive on the wrong side of the street on the mat
sαм мα�chαиd says:
and I wouldnt respect speed limits

[LunchBox]

Starks has always been a tough critic of mine, but he has never been harsh about it. However, he does not candy coat his input. I am the 1% of humans that can take that, and build on it. Most people don't want criticism...they want a pat on the back. The fact is, if a painter wants to get better, they need to be willing to listen to itemized critiques. I have a LONG way to go, but I have also come farther than I imagined.

Not to gush or anything, but I owe my success to Alex. I'm not saying that to kiss his ass, because I don't owe him anything...his advice was offered freely, and at his will, can be retracted. But, he does have my gratitude, and respect. I too have worked (online) with some talented painters...yet nobody has sought my advice for more than a mini or two. I am similar to Starks in that aspect, as I am very willing to teach those who want to learn. Unfortunately, most painters want to learn how to do something one time, and they cease to grow. As a teacher, (middle school science) I can truely say that education is a journey...not a destination.
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"Let your anger be as a monkey in a pinata; hiding with the candy, hoping the children do not break through with a stick."

My CMON: http://www.coolminiornot.com/artist/LunchBox

[Legacy40k]

Short interesting read from the Computer Graphics Society forums:

The Artist ...

1. upon presenting a work to the 2D WIP gallery should expect to have his/her work critiqued by others of varying skill levels.
* professionals - someone who has worked at some capacity in the film, television or gaming industry.
* students - someone who is currently enrolled in academic classes relating to the Digital Arts profession.
* hobbiests - someone who has a strong interest in the field and utilizes their free time pursuing their own personal projects in the medium.
* admirers - someone who just has a strong interest in the artists, their work and the media but doesn't have any experience producing the art themselves.
* John & Jane Does - someone who has randomly stumbled upon the forum and has registered to leave a comment or two.
2. should understand that the opinion and critique of each individual mentioned above should be considered of equal value. It does not take a qualified and trained Master Chef to understand when cheese has gone bad. The same principle applies to anyone who wishes to critique an image.
3. is not under any requirement to alter their work as suggested by it's critics.
* Apply all critiques - improve your work or muddle it up with the collective opinions of the masses. That is your choice.
* Apply some - maybe you understand the relevance of some critiques but don't want to sacrifice in other areas. That's fine.
* Apply none - Yes, you do have the right to ignore all critique provided or dismiss them as irrelevant to your vision. However, don't be surprised when your critics question your motivation to post in this WIP forum.
4. should be courteous and thankful to the critiques provided, acknowledging each critique as helpful (even should the artist choose to ignore the advice provided). Someone just spent 2 minutes or longer writing an opinion of your work. Return the favor by (at the very least) thanking them for their time.
5. should not take any critique of the art presented as a personal attack on his/her own character. Please understand that, "this is incorrect" and "you're a douchebag" are two completely different statements. The first being completely acceptable behaviour on the forum, and the later should be immediately reported to one of the Forum Leaders.


The Critic ...

1. should understand that their opinion (regardless of how they or others may feel is relevant to the work) is never the final word of absolute truth and knowledge. That privilege belongs to the artist. The artist ultimately knows his/her vision and path that they wish to take to get there.
2. may not agree with the artist's decisions or methods, but it is not acceptable to impose yourself upon the work. The correct way to critique work is to offer suggestions that the artist may (or may not) choose to implement in their revisions.
3. should remain mindful that artists can be egotists (not trying to stereotype here, but it's a pretty common unwritten fact ). Careful choice of words when providing a critique is often recommended.
* Provide specifics when possible.
* Avoid use of negative words like bad, horrible, wrong, stupid, etc.
* Mention the parts that you like about the image as well as the parts you don't.
4. should not argue the opinions or critiques provided by other users. Focus on the artwork presented and allow other users to give their opinion as well (even if you disagree).
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My Cool Mini or Not Album